Updated date:

Apr 11, 2018

Sergeant Ronald Stone Bomber Command- What really happened on that day November 1942?

Author:

I have always been fascinated by our ancestry. What secrets are there hidden in the pages of the past? A fascinating look at our ancestors.

Sergeant Ronald Stone Copyright Nell Rose

Bomber Pilot Shock!

Findmypast is an online Genealogy site that helps you connect with your past. Or should I say your ancestors and their fascinating past. I have been meaning to do it for a while, and found the Ancestry Genealogy site a bit daunting. So after finding the Find My Past site I logged in, paid my dues and off I went.

Sort of. The trouble with me is that I tend to be impatient. So, after making a mess of it for about two hours I started from the beginning, and began putting together my family tree.

So far so good. But then something rather strange happened.

I say Find my past found an anomaly. That isn't altogether true.Well it is in a way. I noticed something odd when adding my own info.

I was searching through my own records, photos birth and death certificates etc when I suddenly thought of Ron.

Ron is our hero. He was my uncle on my mother's side. In 1941 he was training to be in Bomber Command, and after a few months overseas, Miami and Vancouver, he came back to join the War. Soon he was a Sergeant in the RAF.

On the 16th November 1942 he was flying with his flight crew over Scotland where they had just come back from a bombing raid over Germany. His plane had been badly damaged, and they crashed in a river and all on board were killed.

Or so we thought.

A sad day...

My family were told the next day, and as you can imagine they were totally heartbroken. Evidently my gran had lost her husband six months before, so she was crushed.

The fact that after the plane crashed into the river, my uncle got out, but dived back in to help his colleague and friend, was made worse by the fact that they then both drowned.

For over 70 years we were made to believe that Ron was coming back from a night time raid and the plane was badly damaged. He was a navigator in a Lancaster Bomber.

After starting my online search I suddenly discovered something new. A couple of years ago I found a site called Remembering Today.

I wrote about my uncle on there and left it to see if anyone would add anything.

Then I totally forgot about it. Until yesterday.

And what I found shocked me!

What on earth....?

The is some of the script from that site. Thanks to a man called Peter Clare who had done the research for me.

16 November 1942

19 O.T.U.
Whitley V P5105
Operation Training.

They took off from Kinloss, for a night cross-country. Both engines failed ...!!! and while attempting to alight in the River Dee, 2 miles west of the Aberdeenshire town of Ballater the plane smashed into a suspension bridge (Polhollick bridge) and crashed at 2225 hrs.

Crew.

P/O. D L C. Thomas. Injured
Sgt. R. Stone +
Sgt. R L. Pett +
Sgt. H S. Fraser RCAF. Injured
Sgt. Williams.

What?

So three of the crew survived? And what the heck was a 'Whitley V P5105'?

I had never heard of this type of war plane before! What happened to the Lancaster Bomber? And more importantly, how come it says 'Training' and what does it mean by two engines failing?

I then noticed the words 19 OTU op. Training, and put those in the search engine.

And boy was I surprised!

Polhollick bridge near Aberdeen Scotland on the river Dee where my uncle Ron crashed in the whitley.

Is there something wrong with the Planes....?

First of all I found my uncle's name in the Roll of Honour. Then looked to see if I could find out more about the Whitley plane and how many accidents and losses it had. And I was stunned to see at least 200 planes had crashed or been shot down.

Now don't get me wrong. I would imagine that all of the planes in the war, whatever make, probably suffered hundreds of losses.

But something was niggling me. So I looked further.

And found this:

There are many aircraft accidents in the O.R.Bs.

Any twin engine aircraft suffering an engine fire or loss at heavy weights was a major problem, and in the hands of a solo less-experienced pilot possibly a tragedy waiting to happen.

Not all the accidents were in the air or pilot error. There are one or two ground incidents listed, in particular, where an engine fitter has just cleaned down an oil covered engine, when unknown to him, an electrician comes along to clear the 700 of a problem. The record does not show the fate as result of the consequent engine fire!

And:

No 19 O.T.U continued to fly the Whitley long after the type was removed from front line operations!! Wow!

Time will tell.....

So, as you can see I have a bit of searching to do. If it does turn out to be an accident or fault of the plane it will be a shock.

But that will never stop our feeling so proud of him, especially going back in the water to save his friend.

I believe that the Ministry of Defence, if proven that it was an accidental engine failure compared to being shot down, as we believed, probably said it to save my gran's feelings which I totally understand.

To be told he was a hero is all that matters as he was so brave. But the truth should have been told after the war.

I will still carry on looking for more evidence. Till then I am concentrating on all my dads ancestors, and boy there are a lot of them!

Did you know.....? No, that will wait till next time!

Till then, here's another hero in my family....My mum! Sergeant Georgina Stone.

Sergeant Georgina Stone - Funny Tales From Her Time ...
Sergeant Georgina Stone joined the Airforce in World War 2. But that didn't stop her getting caught up in hilarious pranks! Includes being chased by a Spitfire, losing her dignity and her skirt while putting on a parachute, knocking out a ghost and l

Comments

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 07, 2020:

Thanks Ruby, bless him, my mum loved her Yanks as she called them back then. They were the best!

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 07, 2020:

lol! how funny Hamish! I have a photo of me doing exactly the same thing! Good to see you on Facebook.

Hamish on May 06, 2020:

I am an older man, my wife is Thai. In my profile page I am drinking whisky from a very large bottle. The bottle is a cardboard cutout hahaha

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 06, 2020:

Hi Hamish, sent a message on facebook, but I am not sure i its you? the picture on the main page is an older man with his wife, I presume? she is Malaysian or Thai. is this you? thanks

Hamish on May 05, 2020:

I have a photo that shows the valley that the plane came down in.

I don't know how to send to you

Ruby Jean Richert from Southern Illinois on May 05, 2020:

This was an interesting read Nell. My mother's brother, Uncle Jimmy flew for the Royal Air Force before we were involved in WWII. I have a picture of him with his flight badge, why he flew over there is not know, I would love to find out more about my family, maybe I will. Thanks for sharing.

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 05, 2020:

Thanks Hamish, will do.

hamish kemp on May 05, 2020:

Cant find you on facebook. Have a look on facebook for me and send a message

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 04, 2020:

That was so brave of him and all the other army, navy, etc. I can't even imagine going through something like that. And yes, my facebook name is Nell Rose

Hamish on May 03, 2020:

My oldest brother was in the navy during WW11 He served on a Landing Craft. He went to the beaches of Normandy to evacuate the comrades stranded on the beach. He also took part in the battle of Dunkirk

Hamish on May 03, 2020:

Do you have a facebook AC ? If yes may I have the name you use there

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 03, 2020:

Thanks Hamish, for some reason the email isn't showing up, but I will keep looking. If it does, I will of course answer back. And thank you again.

I forgot to say, I will ask Hubstaff (here) to see if there is something wrong with the email part.

hamish on May 02, 2020:

My family name Kemp. Had 4 brothers 2 sisters. I now live in Australia. I sent the email 3 times.

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 02, 2020:

Thank you so much MG. Singh. That is very kind of you to say.

MG Singh emge from Singapore on May 02, 2020:

An awesome tale that can be read and re-read. I completely identify with it being an aviator myself and can understand the thoughts in the mind of the crew when they crash-landed. Such men deserve to be remembered and put on a pedestal.

Nell Rose (author) from England on May 02, 2020:

Thanks, Hamish, I can't find an email, but never mind, not sure where that has gone. Thank you so much for coming back, it was my brother who wondered what the family name was, not sure why, its been a pleasure 'talking' to you, and once again thank you for all your information, I totally appreciate it. Nell

hamish on May 01, 2020:

If it was shot. it must have been over Germany or France,That's a long way from Kinloss.

As I mentioned before, My brothers were coming home from Ballater they had probably been to the Saturday evening pictures. I say probably because that is what most teenagers did then.

I have no problem giving you my brothers names as my story is as I heard it from them, I have heard the story many times. I had 4 brothers 2 sisters. Bunty, Sandy, Bill, Bob, David and Jean. Sadly only Jean and myself are the only surviving members of the Kemp family.

I now live in Australia. My sister lives near Rickmansworth England

I did send email to you

Nell Rose (author) from England on April 30, 2020:

I forgot to say that we were told it was shot, but either way, it does prove that they had been on a raid. May I ask something about you? If you don't mind. What part of Scotland you live, and your full name? You can get me through email where it says, Contact author at the top of the page. But of course if you would rather not, I will totally understand, thank you.

Nell Rose (author) from England on April 30, 2020:

Thank you so much Hamish, I will treasure this memory and keep it on here to show my brother. And thanks to your brothers too for helping. I am glad they were okay. Keep safe at this horrible time, and once again thank you.

Hamish on April 30, 2020:

I was told by my father the plane was loaded with bombs destined for Germany. The plane had engine trouble while going south over the Grampian mountains. The crew decided to drop there bombs somewhere on the western side of Mount Lochnagar that reduced the weight of the plane giving them a greater chance to ditch the plane safely. It is said that only one engine failed. From Lochnagar to Ballater is about 20 miles A C F That's a fair distance for a Whitley bomber to glide with the help of only 1 engine. Your uncle Ron was a hero as were his 4 companions. But for them we may be Speaking German as our first language

I want to add to my story.

a few years later there was an aircraft crashed into Mt. Lochnagar on a very foggy day. It took rescuers more than a week to find the wreckage because of the mountain fog. I am not sure if it was commercial or military craft

Nell Rose (author) from England on April 29, 2020:

Oh wow, Hamish! Thank you so much for writing. We were told one was in trouble, and my uncle went to help him. Of course, there was a lot of cover-up around it, so this is wonderful to know the truth at last. Thank you so much! It's been a long time coming, trying to find out. May I asked you, your brothers names? So I can tell my brother. Thanks

Hamish on April 29, 2020:

My 2 older brothers were first on the scene of the tragic accident. They were cycling home to Glen Girnoc and had to cross the bridge. They were very lucky. The plane came down only meters from where my brothers were.

One brother ran back to Foot o Gairn to report the accident and to get help.

As far as my brothers knew 4 crew members had died another a little way downstream Was unconscious. The next day Ballater police and some air-force brass questioned my brothers.

There is no way anybody could "dive" into the river there, it was less than a meter deep. I used to go swimming there.

Nell Rose (author) from England on April 22, 2020:

Thanks so much Shauna!

Shauna L Bowling from Central Florida on April 22, 2020:

I had to come back and give this a second read. I love this kind of stuff!

Nell Rose (author) from England on January 04, 2017:

Hi Lizzy, yep one big boondoggle as you call it! Yes its amazing how close family can be genetically! LOL! my next door neighbor is related to me twice! Once through my dad, and once through my mum! three hundred years back, so very distant but still! lol!

Liz Elias from Oakley, CA on January 04, 2017:

WOW! I was just puttering about through the pages, and decided to read your article about your uncle. What an amazing tale! Was it a boondoggle by the RAF? The manufacturer? Who knows at this point!

As to skeletons in the closet--I found one in my maternal line that surprised me: a mother who was second cousin once removed...from her own child! I checked with a living cousin of mine who is a professional-level genealogist, though he only does it as a hobby, and he confirmed it was not a mistake...we share the same line up until about 1825, where it splits off. but he said, in those days, people did not uproot and move as we do now, so they ran out of people to marry besides cousins! :-O

Nell Rose (author) from England on January 17, 2016:

Happy New Year Paula! yes its great digging around in my ancestors, but I have come to a complete blank on three sides at the moment, its driving me insane! I would love to sit and talk to you, it would definitely be great! thanks as always, and always lovely to see you, nell

Suzie from Carson City on January 17, 2016:

Oh Nell....Fascinating and exciting. I'm sure you are glad you got yourself into "digging!" I've read several stories from people who have discovered so much, as you did. Some of the tales are of "mixed" review, if you know what I mean.

It's wonderful to know these things from generations ago.....has it made you feel differently in certain ways, Nell? I'd love to sit and talk to you all about this.

I always say that I'm going to explore....I don't know why I haven't yet! Maybe you've just convinced me!! Happy New Year, Nell!

Nell Rose (author) from England on January 17, 2016:

Thanks so much Besarien, glad you liked it. I hope you had an awesome New Year, nell

Besarien from South Florida on January 16, 2016:

Hello Nell Rose! This is a wonderful bit of detective work! Your uncle was indeed brave to try to rescue his comrade in arms. Perhaps he was more injured than he first realized. That's a common occurrence even in auto accidents. I definitely agree that his heroic chops still stand even though the facts have changed a bit.

Thank you for another wonderful hub, no less intriguing than your supernatural hubs or the tales from your well (mis?)spent youth. I think family history is thrilling though and love it warts and all. Happy New Year to you and yours.

Nell Rose (author) from England on December 24, 2015:

Hi Dianna, thanks so much, I would love to know about your background too! have a great Christmas, nell

Dianna Mendez on December 23, 2015:

My cousin delved into our past and came up with some interesting facts. I'm glad you were able to uncover some wonderful moments from your family background. It is all so fascinating!

Nell Rose (author) from England on December 06, 2015:

Yes my mum too! lol! its really fascinating isn't it? to try and find your ancestors, I am still going strong with my family, thanks so much for reading, nell

Ann Carr from SW England on December 06, 2015:

This is great, Nell! My sister and I have looked into our family tree and there is quite a lot there. My grandfather continues to be a mystery as to his activities during WWII (he served in both); we cannot unearth much and it seems he did lots undercover. The story continues.....!

My mum had some funny stories too; she was in the WAAFs. Good job they had something to laugh about in those days of horror.

I enjoyed reading this. You never know what you might find but it's always interesting and there are others' stories along the way which are equally fascinating.

Thanks for a great read, Nell.

Ann

Nell Rose (author) from England on December 05, 2015:

Thanks Lawrence, sorry for the delay, brother was in hospital, made rush time!

Lawrence Hebb from Hamilton, New Zealand on November 28, 2015:

Nell

I did do some, and a family hustorian said the same, we don't thi k he's an ancestor but more like a brother of an ancestor.

Apparently he was in charge of the lifeboat that went back for those in the water.

Apparently all those in the lifeboats survived but only four of those in the water (he rescued most of them)

Lawrence

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 28, 2015:

Hi lawrence, that sounds fascinating! Did you follow it up to find out who and how? thanks for reading, nell

Lawrence Hebb from Hamilton, New Zealand on November 27, 2015:

Nell

We all have those 'skeletons' whether we like them or not!

We always had 'family stories' passed down that showed a 'chequered' history and a veritable 'rogues gallery' some of which were hilarious stories!

One that did intrigue me that I actually found out was a distant relative who was a hero and survivor of the Titanic!

Great read though

Lawrence

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 14, 2015:

Hi Deb, thanks so much yes I am really proud of them, thanks for reading, nell

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 14, 2015:

Thanks Genna, yes they seem to be popping out of the woodwork so to speak! lol! I am loving it, nell

Deb Hirt from Stillwater, OK on November 14, 2015:

Wow, you have some real heroes in your family. Can't wait to read about your mum, too.

Genna East from Massachusetts, USA on November 13, 2015:

What an amazing find, Nell! This is an extraordinary journey for you, in researching your family's past, some of which I hope you will be able to share with us. Family history is a fascinating and enriching tapestry.

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 13, 2015:

Hi Gordon, long time no see? great to see you! yes its so easy on findmypast, all you do is put up your family tree that you know, and you get hints which pop up, you then have to work out if they are right or not, its pretty easy!

Gordon Hamilton from Wishaw, Lanarkshire, United Kingdom on November 13, 2015:

Hello, Nell

First of all, by an amazing coincidence, I read this Hub while listening to a repeat from September of a tribute to the Battle of Britain on BBC Radio 2!

I've never heard of this site but one of my cousins is currently researching the loss of our great-grandfather at Flanders in World War I so I'll need to get in touch with him about this. I hope your digging turns up more info for you. I have always meant to get involved in research like this as I'm the eldest of my generation on both sides of the family and hold all the medals and memorabilia. I don't even know what some of the medals are.

Thanks for the interesting read, the inspiration and the prompt :)

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 13, 2015:

Thanks DDE, yes and it gets better and better! lol! thanks for reading, nell

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 13, 2015:

Thanks ladyguitar, doing my family tree is absolutely fascinating! I am going farther and farther back, its amazing! thanks for reading, nell

Devika Primić from Dubrovnik, Croatia on November 13, 2015:

Interesting and well-thought out hub. When you find out more about family history it is surprising of what you can find

stella vadakin from 3460NW 50 St Bell, Fl32619 on November 11, 2015:

Nell, great story and video. Love war stories and to be able to read about the people. The video was great and so was Harry's music. I will look forward for the story of Georgina.

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 08, 2015:

Hi Nadine, I wonder if they both knew each other? how amazing that would have been wouldn't it? thanks as always, nell

Nell Rose (author) from England on November 08, 2015:

Hi Jackie, I totally agree with you, it seems that the way we treat them these days is appalling! things need to change when someone is injured or comes out of the services, simple as that. thanks as always, nell

Nadine May from Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa on November 07, 2015:

I'm on my tablet when i saw your article on my Google+ feed and had to read your story...so very interesting...my mother was in the airforce during worldwar II in the UK. Because Holland was occupied. Look forward to your next article.

Jackie Lynnley from the beautiful south on November 07, 2015:

I love reading about brave military and I respect yours as much as ours; all just innocent men (and women) sticking out their neck for their country. I cannot stand to listen to anyone that put them down. Where would we be without them; and I cannot imagine I could start to be that brave. We have men fighting now that if they are killed it won't be called combat and I have no idea what that is all about...either to cheat them from honor, money or something and the government we have now has absolutely no respect for our military and thinning it out as much as possible in probably the worst time since WWII. I can't wait until they are out of office and we can have new respect in this country and a new strong military.